Take a look at UK town maps. They turned their Main Streets into pedestrian areas, and built bypass roads that routed around the town centre. The results are exactly the kind of thing you want.
A lot of towns found that after bypasses went in, through traffic dropped off a cliff as planned, but the trade that passing traffic brought also dropped off. Baldock in Hertfordshire being an example.
At least here in semi-rural Oregon, cities seem to fail for the same reason you've outlined - more infrastructure to maintain than tax dollars to support. There's a strong culture of pay nothing and demand everything among a very large majority of the population. As a result, towns were built poorly by developers who profited and left (many purposely bankrupted themselves to avoid being sued in the future for shoddy work), leaving a mess in their wake for towns to resolve on their own in 10-15 years. Making matters worse, many of these towns (my own included) have busy state highways (or two, or three) running right through the middle of downtown with no support for changing that from the community (I've heard countless old timers declare some version of: 'the highway has always been here - people just need to stop driving through our town unless they're going to spend some money here'). There's a new crisis now of housing affordability causing an homelessness influx and increased public safety spending. We're starting to see the results of city tax revenue decreasing as taxpayers at the high end leave with their tax dollars for greener pastures with fewer homeless and better tax incentives. Making things worse, a growing number of tax generating commercial properties are ending up in the hands of big banks and shell corporations with zero interest in redevelopment or reuse. With no investors or support from the local community, these towns are almost guaranteed to become insolvent within a decade. It's like watching someone die of cancer while they continue to smoke a pack a day.
Like Mian, I followed a link from Tom Scott, but I live in the United States and am always confounded by the lack of intelligence and logic behind local zoning and taxing laws. I live in a town in New Jersey where the median age is 67yo, and yet there is a lack of a cohesive policy on public walkways, crosswalks, and speed limits in congested and residential areas. The town is designed for people who drive cars, but many of our residents are unable to drive. Our infrastructure effectively imprisons it's elderly residents.
I'm from the UK, sent here on recommendation from Tom Scott. Some of this doesn't apply over here with how rates of taxes are paid etc but holy hell was it interesting!
Yeah, you were in his newsletter yesterday. The bullet was [there's a link to your post on the title, and to a YouTube video in the parenthetical]:
Why Galesburg Has No Money is an incredible piece that neatly sums up what's wrong with American suburban development. (Not Just Bikes, who I've mentioned before, also provides a YouTube version of a similar argument.)
Someone sent me this because I write about walking and car-centric infrastructure. Great piece! A very useful resource, too, for all of us trying to figure out how to help our communities be sustainably livable.
Am I misunderstanding your paragraph about the "entire development West of Seminary and North of Carl Sandburg drive"? From that description and the graphic, it looks like Walmart is included. But Walmarts property tax alone is 413k and you mention the entire development pays 233k in property taxes. That doesn't make sense to me if Walmart is a subset of the development.
the 413k number is the total property tax amount the Walmart pays, which goes to the school district, city, county, etc. The 233k number is the amount of property tax revenue that goes to *just* the city from the development, so that’s excluding the monies going to the schools, county, etc.
If landlords would maintain the properties they rent, that would help too. How many slumlords in Galesburg get away with running buildings into the ground despite collecting tenants hard-earned money each month? Even one is too many.
One other thing to consider is that the bulk of property tax doesn't go to road or sidewalk construction. Instead, it goes to personnel pensions because, as you point out, it is a stable source.
Take a look at UK town maps. They turned their Main Streets into pedestrian areas, and built bypass roads that routed around the town centre. The results are exactly the kind of thing you want.
A lot of towns found that after bypasses went in, through traffic dropped off a cliff as planned, but the trade that passing traffic brought also dropped off. Baldock in Hertfordshire being an example.
At least here in semi-rural Oregon, cities seem to fail for the same reason you've outlined - more infrastructure to maintain than tax dollars to support. There's a strong culture of pay nothing and demand everything among a very large majority of the population. As a result, towns were built poorly by developers who profited and left (many purposely bankrupted themselves to avoid being sued in the future for shoddy work), leaving a mess in their wake for towns to resolve on their own in 10-15 years. Making matters worse, many of these towns (my own included) have busy state highways (or two, or three) running right through the middle of downtown with no support for changing that from the community (I've heard countless old timers declare some version of: 'the highway has always been here - people just need to stop driving through our town unless they're going to spend some money here'). There's a new crisis now of housing affordability causing an homelessness influx and increased public safety spending. We're starting to see the results of city tax revenue decreasing as taxpayers at the high end leave with their tax dollars for greener pastures with fewer homeless and better tax incentives. Making things worse, a growing number of tax generating commercial properties are ending up in the hands of big banks and shell corporations with zero interest in redevelopment or reuse. With no investors or support from the local community, these towns are almost guaranteed to become insolvent within a decade. It's like watching someone die of cancer while they continue to smoke a pack a day.
Like Mian, I followed a link from Tom Scott, but I live in the United States and am always confounded by the lack of intelligence and logic behind local zoning and taxing laws. I live in a town in New Jersey where the median age is 67yo, and yet there is a lack of a cohesive policy on public walkways, crosswalks, and speed limits in congested and residential areas. The town is designed for people who drive cars, but many of our residents are unable to drive. Our infrastructure effectively imprisons it's elderly residents.
I'm from the UK, sent here on recommendation from Tom Scott. Some of this doesn't apply over here with how rates of taxes are paid etc but holy hell was it interesting!
Is that Tom Scott, the youtuber?
Yeah, you were in his newsletter yesterday. The bullet was [there's a link to your post on the title, and to a YouTube video in the parenthetical]:
Why Galesburg Has No Money is an incredible piece that neatly sums up what's wrong with American suburban development. (Not Just Bikes, who I've mentioned before, also provides a YouTube version of a similar argument.)
Wow that’s awesome, that’s exactly what I wanted to know so thanks for sharing!
YouTuber "NotJustBikes" is awesome. Characterizes well the many flaws in suburban/urban planning in North America.
Great write-up. Never expected Galesburg to hit the front page of Hacker News
Someone sent me this because I write about walking and car-centric infrastructure. Great piece! A very useful resource, too, for all of us trying to figure out how to help our communities be sustainably livable.
Am I misunderstanding your paragraph about the "entire development West of Seminary and North of Carl Sandburg drive"? From that description and the graphic, it looks like Walmart is included. But Walmarts property tax alone is 413k and you mention the entire development pays 233k in property taxes. That doesn't make sense to me if Walmart is a subset of the development.
Great article overall!
the 413k number is the total property tax amount the Walmart pays, which goes to the school district, city, county, etc. The 233k number is the amount of property tax revenue that goes to *just* the city from the development, so that’s excluding the monies going to the schools, county, etc.
Joe, I might suggest this article as it discusses the concept of creating the environment you want for your downtown. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/12/2/heres-what-not-to-do-to-your-small-town-main-street
If landlords would maintain the properties they rent, that would help too. How many slumlords in Galesburg get away with running buildings into the ground despite collecting tenants hard-earned money each month? Even one is too many.
Great to find another Strong Towns fan. See my review: https://mcleveland.org/blog/index.php/2020/03/strong-towns-a-bottom-up-revolution-to-rebuild-american-prosperity-by-charles-marohn-jr/
Meditation is more efficient than education is more efficient than depopulation.
One other thing to consider is that the bulk of property tax doesn't go to road or sidewalk construction. Instead, it goes to personnel pensions because, as you point out, it is a stable source.